Palestinian nationalism might be recent phenomenon, But so is Jewish nationalism. Despite finding its roots the 3000 year old history of the Jews, this form of nationalism only started as a real movement in the late 1800. It wasn't this history that made the Jews a single nation, Jews around the world never identified with Zionism. That's why the state had to carry out its aliyah programmes to bring in Jews from Africa, the Middle East, central Asia and elsewhere (ah! BTW this is not a miracle from G-d, it is the result of Mossad work and a lot of money). These groups may now have this sense of Israeli patriotism but it wasn't there 60 years ago.
The root of the story is not if Palestinian nationalism existed or not before 1967 (and it did because traces of an independent Palestinian national movement can be traced as far back as mid 1800's- read Baruch Kimmerling and Yoel Migdal, "The Palestinians").
The root of the conflict is not in religion either. You believe that G-d gave the land to Israel. I don't believe that. So what makes your belief an argument in a conflict like this one? you can use your belief to justify to yourself what you are doing. But to the whole world it doesn't make sense because the world doesn't believe in a God that gives away land like a feudal lord.
The essence of the problem is that when Israel was established, hundreds of thousands of people lost their possessions, livelihoods, and lives. These people are scattered around the world, just like the Jews were in their diaspora. And these people have one objective, to go back to their homes.
Now please spare me the arguments of War and attacks by Arabs. As Palestinians we are not responsible for the failure of incompetent Arab armies who were (ALL of them) under British leadership. These armies were there to fake a war not to fight one. They have even facilitated the Israeli war effort.
Israel may have created a flourishing economy. An economic miracle i would say (but not a divine one). But if you examine closely how this happened you will find out that if you take over 3 million dunums of land, and transfer their ownership to one entity (KKL), and bring hundreds of thousands of low skilled workers to till them, then it is easy to create wealth.
In fact the reason that made Israel so rich is the same reason that made the Palestinians so poor. You cannot steal all they own and claim that they are not helping themselves. You can't steal all they own and boast about your ability to make the desert bloom.
The Palestinians want to go back to their homes and live peacefully. They don't have anything to do with All the gods of the world and all their promises.


Bar Kochba said...

You are confusing Jewish nationalism with the active return of Jews to Zion. Jews worldwide always yearned the return to the Land of Israel. Jews from Morocco, Russia, India and Iraq always considered themselves one people, belonging to one nation. From time to time, various groups of Jews, usually headed by a rabbi, would make aliyah and establish settlements in Israel, such as Nachmanides. However, it is only in the 1800s that Jews began to make aliyah for the purpose of establishing a Jewish state. I don't see how this fact in any way disproves ancient and well-established Jewish nationalism. There was no possibility before then of establishing a Jewish state. It is testimony to the strength of Jewish longing for Israel that so many Jews made aliyah.

A million Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews were expelled from Arab countries in 1948. A lesser number of Arabs fled willingly in the face of advancing Arab armies. Israel accepted and integrated the Sephardic Jews- the Arabs kept their refugees languishing in camps for 60 years, to be used as pawns. The Sephardic Jews have long given up any claim to return to the lands from which they were driven. The Arabs must accept that same thing. 60 years have passed. The Arabs have 22 countries and the Jews have one.


nindee said...

Don't worry about Bar Kochba, Ned.

He's been telling everyone the same thing over and over again. He won't take anything less than Israel the Jews state, no matter what.
Jews state where non-Jews have no political right whatsoever (you said that in your email, Bar Kochba). Talk about 'the only Democratic Nation in middle East'.

What Bar Kochba wrote has explained to me, why there are more illegal settlements in West Bank (which is under Fatah). Because they don't want any 'peace process'. They just want 'the sacred land' of Israel for themselves. So, Israel makes life so unbearable for the Palestinian so they'll flee for safety or just...die.

And IDF, Israel spokepersons and 90% of Israeli people keep on playing the victim role.

They keep on saying "the ball is on Palestinian". For 61 years, it never was and it never is.

You right, Ned. It doesn't make sense using religion, any religion, as an argument to justify crimes against humanity.

Take care.

roman kalik said...

Bar Kochba I agree with you 100%. We have to keep kicking Hamas ass untill the last Pali lives Hamastan and our rule is restored.

Ned said...

Thank you Nindee, I agree with you. The thing is these people's arguments are so weak that it hurts when others start using them.

roman kalik said...

We are going to show the towel heads who is the boss in the Holy Land!

Anonymous said...

Hey Ned,
My name is Fletcher I am an American and I am currently attending a University there (I study Anthropology and Middle East Studies). I have really enjoyed how articulate you have been in your analyses of Zionist thought and the history of the Palestine-Israel conflict. Though wanted to avoid a topic that is all-too-often focused on, I still think women’s rights is a particularly interesting discourse in this conflict. I was wondering if you could discuss a little bit how both Israelis and Palestinians use things like the treatment women, women’s rights, and veiling as justifications for violence/incursions/actions. I am curious about how ‘both sides’ of the conflict utilize women to justify such actions and positions. This discourse, is in form and function, strikingly reminiscent of France’s justifications for it colonial occupations of Algeria. Thanks for any response you might have!

Note: as this is for a class, your response will be read by my teacher

Jose G said...

I always thought that it's just a colonial conflict, the last one imposed by Europeans on a foreign territory: A bunch of ruthless Europeans invade a territory they don't belong to, and kill, displace, enslave, torture, etc. the original population. Those who did it this time were jews, but that's just anecdotical.
That's how Ben Gurion described the conflict. That's how Ariel Sharon summed it to French president Chirac, who fought the Algerian war as a conscript, in a famous conversation: We are fighting a colonial war, just like you did, only we have no place to return to...
All my simpathies are with the victims, none with the assasins. Hope the Zionists get what they deserve one of these days... I am sure those war criminals, those Israeli killers of women and children who excel at ethnic cleansing, will we processed and jailed sooner or later.

Jose G said...

Fletcher: You may find worth looking at Richard Dawkins Root Of All Evil, a docu on religion shot by an eminent scientist. He interviews a Yank Jew, who became a fundamentalist, migrated to Jerusalem, then what he saw there made him change faith: He became a Muslim fundamentalist. His views on women are revealing, and the whole ionterview also is: It goes a long way towars proving how close all fundamentalist are, and how close Arabs and Jews are.

Bar Kochba said...

Jose G,

The Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel. There has never been another sovereign entity or nation in that land. The Arabs are the colonists and the occupiers.

Kill all Arabs said...

I agree with Bar. Let's show the towel heads who's the boss

Anonymous said...

this guy ned...he's such a pussy

Anonymous said...

yeah...he's a real cunt

Anonymous said...

cunthead u r lucky u r in WB if u were in gaza i would've shown you my marksman skills. ur skull would've been my trophee.......heheheheh

nindee said...

Hi Ned, I'm waiting for your next post.
Keep on writing,bro.

Have a great day there...